Why less government is the right way to fix health care »
Posted By aic4ever 2 weeks, 3 days ago in Political OpinionEline van den Broek , founder of the European Independent Institute, a Netherlands-based free market think tank, presents a video for the Center for Freedom & Prosperity , discussing why less government, not more, is the solution for fixing health care.
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Wolfie20072 weeks, 3 days ago
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Excellent presentation. I only wish Obama and the democrats to this would listen and maybe learn something. I have to ask myself and anybody who reads this is since socialized health care is a failure all over the world why does Obama and the liberal democrats insist on it for the people of the United States. What's in it for them?
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traveler20002 weeks, 3 days ago
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Yes, very nice presentation indeed.
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Except for the fact it is not truth.....................
But, yes, with "nice presentations" you can prove any thing.
Remember the FACT (???) presentation at the UN concerning the WMD........
The only problem there as well: very nice and impressive..... if only it were truth ....
No, "national" or "social", if that's the way you want to call it (what's in a word, if you do not know what it really means...)health care is not a failure.
99% of the people in Europe (where I'm from, so I know) don't want to lose it at all.
See my comment lower down here -
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hyperbola2 weeks, 3 days ago
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Amazing all the "think tanks" that the corrupt right-wing oligarchs finance all over the world to generate spurious propaganda from "fancy-sounding" institutions. Guess they think that Americans are so stupid that big lies always work.
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engineer2 weeks, 3 days ago
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I don't buy it for one minute. Europe spends less than half of what the US does on health care. Where is she getting her figures. Is she saying the WHO (World Health Organization) is lying. Why are we ranked 29th in infant mortality, 30th in longevity, lowest ranked among the civilized nations, including all of Europe. I saw the graphs and charts she presented. Where are the sources?
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If you neg my comment, show me the sources and the links!!!-
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OncejesterwasI2 weeks, 3 days ago
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" Europe spends less than half of what the US does on health care."
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Where do YOU get YOUR figures? Is that a total of what Europe spends? ...a per person cost? How often do Europeans visit their doctors and for what?
My doctor bills might total $50 per year if I feel a need for a back crack. Haven't spent a dime yet this year.
And The WHO? They rank the US so low because the evil greedy rich people don't pay all of the medical bills for the poor.
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traveler20002 weeks, 3 days ago
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I am from (Western)Europe and I can tell you that what she says is total (well 99%) b*****t.
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The "story" of waiting lists is taken out of (forgot the word, ... )"specific situation" (??) and out of proportion.
The fact that some people/politicians of some countries want to move to "private" health care is truth of a VERY SMALL number of people and politicians. Indeed, now a days, some people only think of themselves and forget about the others (e.g. CEO and traders concerning there bonuses, still after what happened).
Again, like I said in an earlier forum:
Private insurance companies (any, be it car insurance, life insurance, etc ....., AND health care insurance), ALL of them have as primary goal, MAKING PROFIT.
The product (in this case insurance) is the TOOL to make that profit.
Their primary goal is NOT and has never been, to help people.
They can do this by only paying where there is no other way around and where they can't find a way to deny payment.
They need the profit to pay for specific, private industry costs:
publicity/commercials
sales agents
sales representatives
lobbyists
etc...
also as pure benifit:
paying shareholders
paying CEO's
(paying some politicians.....??)
All the above costs do not exist with National health care system.
Yes, of course, a National Health Care System also looks where they can cut. Indeed, tax revenues are not unlimited. But those cuts are for the benefit of ALL citizens. They'll look where things can be more efficient or will make/force price deals with the pharmacy industries (that's why a lot of medication is cheaper in e.g. Europe). However, they will not refuse a treatment proscribed by a doctor, nor refuse treatment because to expensive nor because of "preexisting" illnesses, etc ....
By definition, as a lot of "private industry" costs are not needed (see above), a National system, overlooked and controlled (against abuse, waste/inefficiency or mistakes) by the "elected people" (you know, senators and mp's, from all party's), by definition, has to be cheaper and open to all rich and poor.
As far as I'm concerned, this is a no-brainer.
Of all the people, except those with money, or who are covered because they work for a big company, who can afford to pay "group insurance, of all the others, how many did travel to Europe to see for themselves???????
Most Americans I know (and I do know quit a few, both high middle class and lower income) who came to Europe, do like the European system....-
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OncejesterwasI2 weeks, 3 days ago
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If the European system is so great, maybe you can help us convince a lot of the people in the US who want that system to F___ING MOVE!
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I was born here and I don't want that kind of system here. It will do nothing for me exept raise my taxes and force me to pay for every hypocondriac in the US to run to the doctor every time they sneeze.
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Charlson2 weeks, 3 days ago
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If less government's your solution, then wouldn't more private insurance become the result? And why do we need more private insurers? Because cost will come down? Doesn't work that way. You'll only ensure more collusion within the insurance industry to keep prices up and higher and not lower costs at all. For- profit insurance companies are not in it for the health benefits of consumer but the profit motive.
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NoWayMan2 weeks, 3 days ago
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this video was grabbed off of youtube. yikes.
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the netherleands isn't listening to her, so why should we?
and the European Independent Institute has been in existence for less than five years and has little clout.
and now the cons want to listen to the europeans? sheesh.
how bout all those europeans who say america should go with the PO or single payer?
file this one under "whatever" -
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OncejesterwasI2 weeks, 3 days ago
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I personaly couldn't care less what kind of system the Europeans choose for themselves, It's their system and I don't live there. I also couldn't care less what the Europeans think we need to do over here, this is our system and they don't live here. For those Europeans who do live here now, what did you see that was so great about the US that made you move here and why do you want to change it into what you left behind?
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traveler20002 weeks, 3 days ago
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***...Europeans who do live here now, what did you see that was so great about the US that made you move here and why do you want to change it into what you left behind?...**
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Have you ever been in Europe for a certain length of time (not just a couple of days)??
Because the US (to live in) is great if you either make a lot of money or work for a MAJOR company with it's own good insurance system.
Also, usually, when (and as long) you are young and/or healthy and don't have an accident, you don't think about what MIGHT happen, and only see the (relativaly) bigger cash, until the day .......
Don't forget also, that a lot of Europeans living in the US, do often work for European companies, and receive European contracts that include our social safety net and other benefits.
There are also a lot of Americans(US) working in Europe (I know some of them) and they tend to try to have the US salary, but with the European benefits such as, social net, health care, min of 4 weeks paid vacation (by law, not by contract), ....etc.
When they return to the US, they, usually, do miss the European system -
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mesodude2 weeks, 3 days ago
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It's funny how cons will say one moment that we invaded Iraq because country x, y, or z said Saddam Hussein had WMD ( as if that absolves the US) and then in the next moment you're yakkin' about how Canada's healthcare sucks and everybody in Europe is on a waiting list a mile long...blah blah. Of course you care what other countries are doing--when it serves your agenda. If you don't care, then you people shouldn't be pulling lies from out of a certain orifice and slamming their systems, all to argue for the status quo. Cons can't have it both ways. ;-(
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rwrnae2 weeks, 3 days ago
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I live in Russia, "socialized" medicine has been here forever. It works great. If you have cancer, you get all the morphine you need until you die. If you have angina, you get nitroglycerine tablets to ease the pain. If you have money, you go to the US to get treatment. The reasons health care is so expensive in the US: government interference. Break down the barriers to competition, ship all your ambulance chasing lawyers out of the country and it will improve. Health insurance, whether public or private is a bad idea. It drives up the costs, people will abuse it, in efforts to stem the abuse people who really need care will be denied. If the money comes out of your own pocket, you will spend it wisely. If you have no money in your pocket, perhaps you will think twice about having kids.
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traveler20002 weeks, 3 days ago
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That's what we call "comparing apples to peers"
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Some people don't seem to understand the difference between communism, socialism and "social system". Those 3 things are not at all the same.
When we talk about a "national health care" or "social health care" (social NOT to be misunderstand as socialism) we talk about the systems in Western Europe. NOT in previous East Europe (previous socialist and communist).
Those are NOT the same.
by the way your comment ***...if you have money, you go to the US to get treatment...*** concerning those "rich" Russians. Actually a lot of them also come to Western Europe....
I do agree though that the US system of lawsuits does make medical cost go up as well. -
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truthiness2 weeks, 3 days ago
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russias systems in general have sucked over the years because the soviets spent all your tax dollars on keeping up with our military.. which is how reagan broke you.
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paying through group plan is cheaper for the individual. its called economies of scale.... think about buying two slices of pizza and a beer by yourself versus you and your friends buying a pie and a pitcher.
historically, poor people have more children than wealthy people.
basically, you are wrong about everything. -
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rwrnae2 weeks, 2 days ago
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"historically, poor people have more children than wealthy people." True. And socialized medicine and welfare enables them to survive and continue to breed, a big mistake. What will you do when they outnumber the people paying the bills?
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truthiness2 weeks, 3 days ago
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at one point in time we had a laissez fair system in the US.
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it led to company towns, child labor, slave wages, dangerous working conditions, etc
then the unions came along and forced the the government to intervene. and now we have paid vacations, maternity leave, anti-discrimination laws, minimum wages, child labor laws, etc
history is not on the side of laissez faire.-
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traveler20002 weeks, 3 days ago
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**....and now we have paid vacations, maternity leave...***
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yes indeed.
Wished for you guys tough that you didn't still lacked behind in duration of paid vacation (min .4 weeks by law, in Europe, depending of country, some more, up to 6 weeks) and maternity leave (depending of country 3 to 6 months).
and so on....
To be honest, when I hear some of my American friends who have only 2 weeks ..... I think I would die....
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